I was in high school jazz band in the 1970s. Herman's La Fiesta was a big hit among that crowd and we played that arrangement. Thanks for reminding me; I've only listened since to the Chick Corea original.
If it’s between The Beatles and The Stones, I will always argue for the Fab Four. I also admit a bias since I met Lennon as a wee girl.
But if we look at influence through a worldwide social lens, I think the longevity, songwriting, outreach, and unconventional business approach of the Grateful Dead is unparalleled in overall rock influence. The Dead created a subculture that spans generations and genres, they embrace new technology— AOL’s Dead forums coordinated nationwide vigils when Jerry died in ‘95. Dead & Co (the remaining members and new ones) just announced 18 additional shows at The Sphere because “technology has finally caught up” with their music and vibe. They ushered in 1-800 ticket sales, tape trading, parking lot merchandising, and hundreds of cover/tribute bands. Not to mention being the progenitors of the Jam Band genre and the thousands of musicians and millions of fans who are part of it.
Some argue that they aren’t the best musicians or singers, but the music, influence, and scene they’ve created over the past 60 years is unparalleled. Maybe Taylor Swift will match it in a few decades… 😉
The stats and how you pulled the data to come to your conclusion make for interesting reading. When I think of rock, I think of all its many genres. The one genre of rock that seems the most popular worldwide is heavy metal. So on that alone, I would think both Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin would have to be the most popular and iconic rock bands simply because Sabbath's down-tuned, doomer, pessimistic sludge rock took the bluesy-heavy rock of bands like Blue Cheer into a totally new direction. Zeppelin also took blues rock into a faster, instantly memorable riff machine.
But that's just my thoughts with no numbers to crunch, stats, or data to run on. I am just going on what I think is the most popular genre of rock and roll and how many kids and bands it has inspired.
I would be interested in seeing the pop genre. I've actually argued pop isn't really a genre because it used to be composed of blues, rock, rap, electronic, etc. It's more just whatever people find popular. I'd be interested in your take.
I can dig the method behind this post, but I’m surprised to not see The Band pop up. After all, they’re the ones who effectively ended Cream and made Clapton attempt to be an honest songwriter.
The main thing to understand about Beatles influence, IMO, is that they changed the trajectory of countless musicians *who never sounded anything like the Beatles,* at least from a retrospective view, accustomed to discerning amongst flavors of rock.
Then in turn, those artists influenced countless more, who after a few years may not have consciously thought of themselves as deriving anything specifically from the Beatles. They didn't necessarily have to have listened to the Beatles.
But all history is iterations and developments along ongoing threads, and for Western (now more-or-less global) rock and pop musics, a *huge* proportion of the threads can be followed back through the Beatles.
Very good article using data from a methodology with which it is hard to argue.
However, I’m going to give it a try and vote Rolling Stones here. Since you mentioned Exile, I’ll throw out my first experience with the album. It was a fall of 1972, I was in high school, and had spent the summer in Asia while reading about their 1972 US tour. Upon arrival back in the states, I bought the album, put on side one, turned it up louder than my mother allowed, and laid on my bed to listen. I was literally blown away by their perspective on music and my attitude about rock music irreversibly changed the moment the first chord was struck.
Anyway, fast-forward to 2024. The Beatles have been broken up since 1970 while the lineup for the Rolling Stones has remained relatively unchanged. Yes, we all know the history that Brian Jones was kicked out and replaced by Mick Taylor, who quit a few years later and was replaced, by Ron Wood in 1975, who actually served as a hired hand until the early 1990s. Bill Wyman left and has not been replaced. Darryl Jones fills in well but he is also a hired hand, a very good one, rather than a “member“. Sadly, Charlie Watts has passed, and Steve Jordan has very ably filled his role, again, as a side musician.
I would think longevity and stability should be significant overriding factors.
I applaud your passion, focus, perseverance, intent to be scientific, open-minded and all that. Really. But in the end, I am the center of my universe and know that the Stones were far more influential, The Clash a close but not exactly competitive second. For now, John Fahey is giving both a bit of a scare.,they are quivering.
Very cool essay. Instantly transported back to the streets of Queens Village arguing Beatles vs Stones …… and also memories of the f*%#ing Monkees getting in the conversation later on. Funny.
I was in high school jazz band in the 1970s. Herman's La Fiesta was a big hit among that crowd and we played that arrangement. Thanks for reminding me; I've only listened since to the Chick Corea original.
If it’s between The Beatles and The Stones, I will always argue for the Fab Four. I also admit a bias since I met Lennon as a wee girl.
But if we look at influence through a worldwide social lens, I think the longevity, songwriting, outreach, and unconventional business approach of the Grateful Dead is unparalleled in overall rock influence. The Dead created a subculture that spans generations and genres, they embrace new technology— AOL’s Dead forums coordinated nationwide vigils when Jerry died in ‘95. Dead & Co (the remaining members and new ones) just announced 18 additional shows at The Sphere because “technology has finally caught up” with their music and vibe. They ushered in 1-800 ticket sales, tape trading, parking lot merchandising, and hundreds of cover/tribute bands. Not to mention being the progenitors of the Jam Band genre and the thousands of musicians and millions of fans who are part of it.
Some argue that they aren’t the best musicians or singers, but the music, influence, and scene they’ve created over the past 60 years is unparalleled. Maybe Taylor Swift will match it in a few decades… 😉
The stats and how you pulled the data to come to your conclusion make for interesting reading. When I think of rock, I think of all its many genres. The one genre of rock that seems the most popular worldwide is heavy metal. So on that alone, I would think both Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin would have to be the most popular and iconic rock bands simply because Sabbath's down-tuned, doomer, pessimistic sludge rock took the bluesy-heavy rock of bands like Blue Cheer into a totally new direction. Zeppelin also took blues rock into a faster, instantly memorable riff machine.
But that's just my thoughts with no numbers to crunch, stats, or data to run on. I am just going on what I think is the most popular genre of rock and roll and how many kids and bands it has inspired.
I would be interested in seeing the pop genre. I've actually argued pop isn't really a genre because it used to be composed of blues, rock, rap, electronic, etc. It's more just whatever people find popular. I'd be interested in your take.
Surprised Granite Gneiss and Biotite Schist didn’t rank higher. Basically everything is built upon them…
Took me too long to figure out what you meant lol
They probably should be band names.
And The Beatles are WAAAY ahead. Nice to see The Who make the cut.
No argument about the final result; Beatles every time.
But where in the name of all that is right and proper are the Sex Pistols?!
Is this just an American list? Because if it takes into account the UK, then the Sex Pistols most surely have been massively influential.
And…the Red Hot Chilli Peppers…influential? Who have they influenced? Other than me, to ensure I never knowingly hear them…ever!
Great research, though, Chris, and I’m not knocking you…just the algos!
The Thanksgiving music playlist left out the most famous one: Arlo Guthrie’s Alice’s Restaurant.
https://youtu.be/m57gzA2JCcM?si=JKixntSwYW6XuPId
I can dig the method behind this post, but I’m surprised to not see The Band pop up. After all, they’re the ones who effectively ended Cream and made Clapton attempt to be an honest songwriter.
Where is R.E.M.?
Glad to see the answer arrived at is the Beatles.
The main thing to understand about Beatles influence, IMO, is that they changed the trajectory of countless musicians *who never sounded anything like the Beatles,* at least from a retrospective view, accustomed to discerning amongst flavors of rock.
Then in turn, those artists influenced countless more, who after a few years may not have consciously thought of themselves as deriving anything specifically from the Beatles. They didn't necessarily have to have listened to the Beatles.
But all history is iterations and developments along ongoing threads, and for Western (now more-or-less global) rock and pop musics, a *huge* proportion of the threads can be followed back through the Beatles.
https://open.substack.com/pub/johnnogowski/p/comparing-u2s-invisible-vs-one?r=7pf7u&utm_medium=ios
It would be interesting to see who these top influencers list as their influences, at least as much as possible knowing some have passed.
Very good article using data from a methodology with which it is hard to argue.
However, I’m going to give it a try and vote Rolling Stones here. Since you mentioned Exile, I’ll throw out my first experience with the album. It was a fall of 1972, I was in high school, and had spent the summer in Asia while reading about their 1972 US tour. Upon arrival back in the states, I bought the album, put on side one, turned it up louder than my mother allowed, and laid on my bed to listen. I was literally blown away by their perspective on music and my attitude about rock music irreversibly changed the moment the first chord was struck.
Anyway, fast-forward to 2024. The Beatles have been broken up since 1970 while the lineup for the Rolling Stones has remained relatively unchanged. Yes, we all know the history that Brian Jones was kicked out and replaced by Mick Taylor, who quit a few years later and was replaced, by Ron Wood in 1975, who actually served as a hired hand until the early 1990s. Bill Wyman left and has not been replaced. Darryl Jones fills in well but he is also a hired hand, a very good one, rather than a “member“. Sadly, Charlie Watts has passed, and Steve Jordan has very ably filled his role, again, as a side musician.
I would think longevity and stability should be significant overriding factors.
I am a rookie on Substack and cannot figure out to edit my above comment. Since the edit is not terribly meaningful, I’ll do without.
I applaud your passion, focus, perseverance, intent to be scientific, open-minded and all that. Really. But in the end, I am the center of my universe and know that the Stones were far more influential, The Clash a close but not exactly competitive second. For now, John Fahey is giving both a bit of a scare.,they are quivering.
Very cool essay. Instantly transported back to the streets of Queens Village arguing Beatles vs Stones …… and also memories of the f*%#ing Monkees getting in the conversation later on. Funny.